ABC: Knowing God - Chapters 13,14

This week on us rewards podcast. Now that Aaron can hear stuff, we're going to start with chapters 13 and 14 of Knowing God by J I Packer, not chapters 14 15, like I scared Aaron with earlier. So let's go ahead and get right on into it because 13 to 14 while they are short, I, I would say they have some things in there that are kind of nice. So we'll go ahead and start with chapter 13, which is entitled The Grace of God, which I'm sure is very appealing to everyone. What was that laugh for right there? 

Yeah, I like how they, the order that they went in with this one. Why was it? Why is that? Well, I just like how we talk about the grace of God and then as when we get to 14, it will be about the, the judge, well, judgment or God being the judge. Uh And honestly, I think that's a good order to go in. Oh, absolutely. Because here, here's the thing too often you have, especially in churches or especially like in a youth group and that, but let's be honest here, you know, you were I'm, I'm saying it from experience of me talking with other people in their youth groups. And that, ok. Um, where they talk heavily on the judge aspect of it and they don't realize they don't talk about the grace aspect of it so much. 

Oh, for youth group, for youth groups and churches. What I've seen a, a few churches where they, like, they go heavily on the judgment part and then like at the end, they Sprinkle low grace in there and that you should wear, I need to know where these churches are. Why, why do you want to know where these churches are? What are you gonna do? I always thought it was the opposite. 

You definitely do have that as well where it's where it's so heavy grace that then judgment comes into the last little bit like, oh yeah, there's this little thing, there's a balance between it. But I guess in my, in my head, if I don't understand the concept of grace, first, the concept of judgment would overwhelm it if I learned about judgment or first versus grace. That's just a me if that makes sense where I like, like if I if if it was so hammered into me at first about judgment, it would be like so overwhelming about everything that grace would almost seem like an afterthought. But, but that's also why there's balance and there's balance in the force and obviously in a book, you can't unless you really want to make a crazy long chapter. 

You can't make both of them talked about at the same time. It's, you talk about both of them in individual individually. So I like the order that they talked about. But anyways, that's just me. So the grace of God. Yes. Uh which is again, chapter 14 of J 13 13, I keep saying ever since you messed with me, you're gonna ruin it for yourself. Now, I know. Uh so chapter 13 of J Packer's Own God. 

Now, I will say this as well. Remember we're doing the signature edition because different editions of the book, the chapters are actually in different orders. What? Yeah, whole chapters like the grace chapter might be like the Grace of God chapter maybe like chapter 11 in another edition. But then they're in the same, they're not necessarily in the same order either. Really? Yeah. Interesting. So when we talk about this book, we're talking about the signature edition um because that is the most recent edition to be published of this book. Ok. Hm. I'll have to check that out because the old man's got some old ones. Yeah, I know. So. All right. So chapter 13, the grace of God Aaron, was there anything that like really stuck out to you about this? A chapter in particular before? 

Obviously, we get to talking about God the judge. Oh, so before we've gone on chapter 14, yes, I didn't want to say the number in case I said, in case I said number 15 or something like that, you know, how it goes. Um, man, I like how this chapter is about Grace. Wow. Ok. No, what else do I say about it? 

Um, other than, I mean, I've got some thingies, I guess throughout it, I suppose. Uh, just right off, right off the bat. I don't know, I guess I haven't thought, or I had never thought of it this way where uh it says at the bottom, well, near the end of just even the first page where uh God's uh well, grace is God's riches at Christ's expense. I was like, whoa, why have I never, I don't think I've ever heard that said like that before. I was like, man, that's pretty, that's pretty wild. It's been a bit of a different picture for me. 

Yeah, because the whole concept of grace, you know, especially when you're talking about salvation. And that right is we are told through biblical narrative that we as humans, we as people, we as sinful flesh beings. Ok? I wasn't sure where we were gonna go with the next one. I was like, what else are we? Uh we as that as that, right? 

We're not deserved of anything. We're deserved of death and sin and what nothing keep going. I know where you are. You are thinking of, I guess I know you do. But that's not, you know, you know that, that's not a reference to that. Oh, no, I know. 

But, you know, our eternal destiny is that predetermined based on our sin nature that we are born with to death. No, we're not talking physical death. Yes. We all physically die. I'm talking spiritual death, eternal death. Uh If you want to go down the more simplistic methodology of it and talking about it, heaven versus hell, ok. 

We're all, we're all because of how we're born on that path to, to hell. We're on the highway to hell, brother. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Yeah, I did, uh, random. I did get asked a question of, would you rather a question of, would you rather, um, live life on the wild side or be on the highway to hell? 

I was just like, huh, the wild side. What would you do? Ok. The wild side or highway to hell. Which one would you? That's interesting because I would have follow up questions. But usually in those situations you don't get follow up questions. 

You only get one or the other. You, you had to pick one or the other. Now, based on that knowledge and based on the answer the data it was provided there the wild side or highway to hell. I would have to choose naturally because I don't want to go to hell, the wild side, which is not the highway to hell. But typically in typical talking and typical way people reference things the wild side is also the highway to hell. 

So, well, you would be, yeah, in a sense you would be. But I figured if I'm not already on the highway to hell, I got a chance to turn around. Right. I don't know. But is the highway to hell one way just, well, I mean, is it just a one lane highway or is it a two lane that goes both directions? What, what highways typically have two sides? 

But, but, but, but, but no, ok. Yeah, I'm, I'm going by the Wilds. Interesting, uh, interesting question. Just, yeah, but anyways going back to the at Christ expense, uh, because we are, you know, born out of the gate on that highway to hell, essentially if you want to put in that colloquial term, uh, it is all at Christ's expense because the only way that we even have the opportunity to not be on that path to get off that train, so to speak, to change our destiny is because of what Christ went through and it is all at his expense that we even are offered this gift of grace. So, yeah, that's a, that's a good summary of it. 

That's, well, because after he came, but because, yeah, there's still sacrifices on the Old Testament where you wouldn't be sent to hell. Right. He was just the one all be all. Exactly. Yeah, because back in the Old Testament days, you had to be real careful because you did anything wrong. Guess what? You sacrifice of your finest. 

You, that could be real expensive. Real rich, real, real, real expensive, rich. Yes, real quick, real quick. I was what I, what my brain was trying to say but my mouth went too fast. Was it gets real expensive real fast. You would need to be really rich. 

I'd like one of the first sentences of this chapter though. It is a truism of Christian scholarship. The grace far from being an impersonal force. Think of when I heard that I was thinking, oh, Star Wars, ok. 

Far from being an impersonal force, a sort, a sort of celestial electricity received like a battery charged by plugging into the sacraments is a personal activity. God operating in love toward people. Now, when they say sacraments here, they're not talking about the sacraments of, let's say like the Catholic church. And that, you know, because of course, if you're in the Catholic church tradition, you have to do various sacraments as part of your salvation sort of stuff. Like one of the sacraments is getting baptized. 

One of them is your first communion. One of them is getting married. You know, they have various sacraments that are, you have to get married. That's one of the sacraments of the Catholic church. Yeah. Who? Yeah, I know nothing about Catholic again. 

Remember a lot of my family Catholic origin. So it's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hm. Interesting. But Yeah. So we're, we're talking right away, you know, at, at the very forefront we're talking about grace. 

We're talking about grace, we're talking about grace. We're not talking about anything else. We're talking about grace. You know, going back to that one quote. It's just practice, it's practice. We're talking about practice. 

I was surprised, I don't know at the, well, just after the line of the God's riches at Christ, God's rich is at Christ's expense. Um And I says, and yet despite these facts, there do not seem to be many in our churches who actually believe in grace. I was like, what? Really? Um And then, well, goes on to the next paragraph to talk about to be sure there have always been some who have found the thought of grace so overwhelmingly wonderful that they could never get over it. But like, I don't know, that was just interesting to me. 

I, I guess I didn't know that or realize that was the thing in the church, I guess with it being talked about so often, it seems like I just figured he just believed in it. Yeah. And that's what he's kind of getting at is a lot of people will give lip service to this concept of grace. Yeah. And he talks about like, hey, talk to him about like the heating bill of the church or this or this and that they can talk forever about it, right about the intricacies of you know how the money from the donations were distributed, blah, blah, blah. But ask them, you know how they've been seeing Grace work in their life or how it has been shown in their life. And he's like, then you basically get like this blankness from them, right? Like what are you talking about? What is this Grace? Yeah. And uh what he ends with this little section of was the longer they have lived without it. And I'm gonna put in their grace. 

Uh, the sure they are that at their age of life, stay stage of life, they do not really need it. So, that's so bizarre to me. Why is this bizarre? You don't, you don't need it. You don't got it. You're not good if it hasn't been given to you, shoot, you're in trouble. Yeah. And I can tell you from my own life. Definitely need grace. Definitely. Yeah, I can point to points of grace many times over. 

Uh, and I'm sure I'm not gonna say anything but II, I can take a few ideas off the top of my head for you, of that as well. Yeah. Oh, no, no. Absolutely. Oh, no, no, I just lost my page but no. Ok. I didn't, I still have another hand holding the book. So it's ok. Ok. Gosh. My, my brain isn't really in the highest running state, you know. So this is different than normal how, uh, just seem not that it's necessarily different. It just seems even more slower than normal. So this is different than normal house. It's decreasing. We're only going 11 direction we need, we need to get you on, uh, Lindell's mental supplements. So you can be as sharp as Lindell. But you know what I mean? If it makes me an owner of a company that's successful, May, is it still successful? 

I mean, it's got to be somewhat, I don't know, he's still doing stuff. He's creating new stuff, you know? I don't know. Maybe he's just going out of business. He's on a desperate find. I don't know. Regardless. This is not the Michael Lindell fan club channel. That good. Is that it is not? All right. Well, this was our last episode of us. 

Of course, we are done now. Oh, all right. Continuing on to the book. That little tangent. My brain is dead. Your brain is dead. 

00, we're gonna have some fun then today. Uh, so I guess today is the day that we play edible or not gonna be perfect. Actually, I wouldn't act any different no matter what it is. No, no, no, no, no. I, I don't mean, like, out of all light, it's the difference between our generation, even though we're not that far off. 

I know what edible means, but I didn't think you would immediately jumped to that and, and it's just, it's, it's a musician thing, you know. It's, yeah. It's very common in the, the music community. I don't partake in them. We'll talk about that later. 

I need some Grace. OK. Leave me alone. All right. Anyways, talking about Grace again back here. 

Now that Aaron has really taken us off track. So sorry. Oh, no. Anyhoo. Anything else from this little section about Grace or do you want to go on to this? No Grasp of Grace section? Oh, yeah. No, you go to the no grasp of grace. OK, section. All right. So in this section, uh Packer is going into the, the four pieces that he says are the reason that hinders those uh those of us who profess to believe in grace from really believing in grace. 

You know, because basically, you know, these previous few chapters, he's saying, you know, hey, we talked about grace all the time in the church. But how many of the people actually believe in grace, blah, blah, blah, that's what he says. He goes well, here's the four reason why in we do not acknowledge or feel grace in one's heart. And he says, clear faith in God's grace becomes impossible if we don't feel or believe this. So the first one and the first one, it took me a second to read it and reread it and make sure I reread it properly and I'm sure Aaron thought of it, read it and thought of a cupcake dessert. Yeah, exactly. The first one is the moral ill dessert of man. And I was like, interesting the moral ill dessert of man because it's not desert. 

Desert would be too. And it was at this point that I realized that I got the two mixed up. The book said desert, not desert because apparently both me and Aaron failed English. So when you hear desert replace it with the word desert, this is his future Paul feeling very ashamed of himself. So I was like, huh? How many times? So what is there anything that popped out for you in this section here about the moral ill dessert of man? 

Uh, there's, um, a little bit just before the second. Um, I guess one where it's talking about, you know, that are still, you know, despite all the stuff they partake in, still like in their heart, like they're, they're good folks. And so I guess, I mean, yeah, I guess I'll just, oh, read the little snip bit. It says for modern men and women are convinced that despite all of their little, oh, gosh, I can't even say that word. Yeah, I, I, yeah, uh, drinking, gambling, reckless, driving, sexual laxity, black and white lies. Which, why do you, why do you gotta plan it out? 

They're all the same lies a lie. Dang it. Um, sharp practice and I don't know what sharp practice and trading is per se. Um, so I don't know what that's all about. Yeah, I'm not sure either. 

That was a weird one, a dirty reading and what have you, they are at heart, thoroughly good folks. And it just made me think of the thing of, you know, like, you know what you feel, what you feel your heart with. I mean, well, I guess what you fill your mind with in, I guess your heart that's kind of who you are or what you like, I guess, become in a sense. But then that's where also the whole thing, you know, from the heart, you know. Uh, so I just, I have a hard time thinking of, you know, despite getting into all of that stuff, it's like, oh, but, you know, you're still a good person. It's like, no, if you fill yourself with crap you're gonna end up probably becoming it. So that was, that was, hm, that was just one thing that really, I guess stuck out to me in this little section though. Yeah. And, and really that summarized with the first sentence of that paragraph, which is, they tend to dismiss a, be conscious in themselves as in others as an unhealthy psychological freak. 

The sign of disease and mental aberration rather than an index of moral reality. That's a complex way of saying, I hate that all that. You just said, essentially people who are put in layman's term, people are going out reading the smutty novels. We're looking at pornography. Uh, people who are now, of course, I'm going to uh, dissent a little bit with his opinion here because no, what the first one is that he puts in there drinking, drinking. He goes, yeah. And you drink it, you, you have to be specific. Yeah. But there are a lot of, how do I put it? Churches in that, that they say any alcohol is bad? Yeah. Um, and that, that could get down to a whole other argument. 

Um, I was actually just listening to something this morning by Mike Winger about it and he actually is like, hey, you know what, so what he does is every week he does uh an like an online stream and so he's a pastor and he does like 20 questions and answers. So 2020 questions from people and then he gives answers to them as best he can in an online stream. Takes a while for him to do all 20 I'm sure. But this last week, this one he just did this week he actually started out. He's like, before we get into the questions and answers, he's like, I actually want to apologize for a verse that he's like, I really butchered the meaning of, oh, and then he kind of went into it a little bit and um I don't have the verse off the top of my head, what it is. But essentially, um it talks about how in the church, you know, you, you in, depending on the virgin you read and really it's KJV is one way and everywhere else is a whole other is another way. So in the KJV, it's like, don't give an appearance of evil. So an appearance of evil could be like if you're a drinker or whatever, but all the other ones are like, don't do evil. So, so he used to say, you know, in his own thing and, and, and he said, you know, drinking whatever, let, let's pick that one for example, right? Because that was one he specifically addressed. He's like, you know what? He's like, drinking is fine but in moderation, blah, blah, blah, but he's like, but based on, and this is old Mike, he was like, based on this verse, you might not, you might want to refrain from it because it might give the appearance of evil because no one knows what you're really doing or is this your first drink or your fifth drink? We don't know. Right. OK. Yeah. Um And then today listen to the thing today, he's like, you know what? 

He's like, that's a bad interpretation of that. He's like, I'm gonna, he's like, I'm gonna leave him up but realize after studying this and studying the original language, the original Greek, he's like, it's complete that that's wrong. Interesting. So that it made me think of that as well with that. But yeah, he, this is uh this is just me reading Packer. 

This isn't me not knowing Packer personally, but he seems very, very rigid on his rules. Yeah. I wouldn't know either. That's just me looking from the outside looking in based on what he's written. But that's just me could be. Yeah. I don't know. So, there's that the moral ill desert of man. Hm. Was there anything else in there that no, was there anything else in the next three points that stuck out to you? Then there's three more points? 

I mean, yeah, I mean, the first, I guess the first little paragraph I was just like, hm, hm, the first little paragraph. What of the, of the second point? The retributive, re retributive Justice of God. Oh, it's so cute. It's like a little kindergarten trying to read. 

It's, it's, it's tough. Today was a long night, last night. Um, you should have been on the ground floor then on the balcony here. Maybe other people will get that later on. Hm. Probably not. No. Yeah, probably not. Maybe a few. What if we, what if we do a song review of one of them? But we don't have any of our own originals so we can't do it going on. So there was, I mean, it's literally that whole paragraph, I suppose. And I just had one little segment underlined. 

Um, so, but all right. So the, I'll read the sentence leading up to it. The accepted, accepted maxim seems to be that as long as evil can be ignored, it should be, it should be one punished, one should punish only as a last resort. But this whole idea of you just kind of let it go let evil and like, I don't know, I guess just bad, bad actions, whatever, just be kind of dismissed is it's, it was crazy to me to hear him writing about that here in this book. Whenever this thing was written. Actually, I already forgot when this was written. 

Granted, it's been updated, what, a couple of times maybe, but the updates are not really like adding ton into it. It's more like maybe some grammar correction and that and any new works are looking like new words are noted. And I think we've only come across that once so far. Uh, it's just, yeah, and it was wild to read that from here and then look at the world we have today where, I mean, people can almost just get away with a lot of stuff and just not even get a slap on the hand. Hence how we have the rise of Karens and all that stuff. We have the rise of Russia Ukraine stuff. 

Uh, so much crap. Um, the Bidens, uh, unless you, you can get away from it as long as you're not in a small town. Oh, my goodness. Oh, man, so bad. But yeah, it's, it's, it's just crazy to me to think of how, how all this stuff is still the same today. I mean, probably just getting worse. 

Compared to what it was back then. Um, well, I, I think even this line that is even more so today than it was probably the back then willingness to tolerate and indulge evil up to the limit is seen as a virtue while living by fixed principles of right or wrong is censored by some as doubt, fully moral. Yep. Um, we have that with everything from abortion to, should Children undergo surgeries that will alter them forever to change parts about them, permanently hormones, everything. Well, it's just the fact of also like the whole thing about, oh, I guess really just taking away the innocence of kids at such a young age and teaching them all the stuff they don't need to know about right now and they'll learn later. 

Yeah, they will, you know, peep kids through all the years, took a while to learn these things and guess what they turned out fine. Yeah. As long as they get to learn about it. Yeah. You know, you, you keep seeing all these videos of like, you know, I don't know if you see them or not but like, what does Gen X think? It's like a guy, like he a little bit younger than you goes to his Gen X dad and ask some question and his dad is always like, gruff and yelling at him and everything and then you have another guy, an Gen X or he's like, he makes little comments about stuff that happens in Gen Z and everything. And he's like, oh dear, honey child, he's like, when I was your age I was outside all day drinking water from a hose. 

I lived, I'm sorry, you can't have your quadruple, filtered distilled, da, da, da, da, da, da, sparkling, whatever water comes so ridiculous. Yeah. And he's like, I was out there drinking and now, like, you see news articles, like, why you shouldn't drink from a hose. That's like x number of dangerous reasons why it's like there may be bacteria. No, really bacteria. Like, everywhere. I know I was like, do you, do you, do you understand why, like older generations, why their immune systems are so strong, so strong and why they didn't have now? Ok. Things are gonna happen allergy wise. But it's like, do you understand why there has been this crazy uptick in allergies? Because you know what allergies are, right? 

It's just stuff that doesn't agree with your body. Your body can't fight off, isn't it? It's not that your body can't fight it off. It, it, your body sees it as something that needs to be eradicated essentially. So, like, you know, like you, you know, you breathe in pollen, right? But your body is like, oh, it's pollen, it's harmless. 

There's nothing, nothing's wrong with it. Me, I bring in pollen, I breathe in pollen and my body goes, we must eradicate it. It's a danger to our system. Kill it, you know, and it's just all these allergic reactions to it. Now, obviously there's more to it than that. I'm being very simplistic but they, they, that's why there's studies now. 

That's like, oh, you know what a kid that lives with a dog, like, since they're born has dramatically reduced allergies and a kid that didn't. That's wild. Why? Because the dog is dirty and all, and their immune system is getting exposed to all this at a young age. So it's not getting, like, oversensitive to everything. Yeah. It's crazy. What do you call these things? 

I guess having a dog is a good thing to do. Yeah. Gosh. Dang it. Good thing. I ain't having kids or you and your eight kids and 10 dogs. 00, ok. Well, I'm gonna need a good job for that one. Yeah. King of Velcro. One step at a time. All right. Uh, anything else under the retributive justice? 

I liked, I, I did like the line where it says God is not true to himself unless he punishes sin. Yep. Yeah. Which sucks at the same time. Well, for us, Ellie. 

Well, I think the next, the next line is also an important part of that, which is, and unless one knows and feels the truth of this fact that wrongdoers have no natural hope of anything from God, but retributive judgment again, the title of the, of the segment here, one can never share the biblical faith and divine grace. Again, it goes back to this concept of people go oh, if I'm just so good, I will just get everything I need from God, la, la, la, la, la, la. Uh And you know, I, I know people like that. I'm sure, you know, people like that potentially, probably I'm not even saying these are people like in the church. I'm saying these are people more likely outside the church. But yeah. Yeah. Or you see the mainstream media and that, oh, if I do enough, if I put enough good on the world, then I'll get enough good karma back. Yeah. Well, that's funny because that kind of goes into the next, next point too, which is the spiritual impotence of man. You got the word right? 

I am so proud of you. You get a gold star, put a gold star here. I'm a winner. That's what the gold star is gonna say. He's sick. It's gonna go right over your face. Can't wait to see it. And for this section, uh the one thing, well, yeah, the one thing that I had underlined was the, the belief that we can repair our own relationship with God by putting God in a position where he cannot say no anymore. 

I just laughed at that thought. I was like, what could we ever do? Well, that, that kind of has always been human nature. If you continue reading on it says ancient pagans thought to do this by man by multiplying gifts and sacrifices. 

Modern pagans seek to do it by churchman and morality conceding that they are not perfect. They still have no doubt that respectably henceforth will guarantee God's acceptance of them in the end, whatever that they may have done in the past. In other words, what, what he's saying is in the past in ancient times, let's say Greek Greco Roman Times, let's say, for example, um you know, people would just heap gifts and gifts and gifts and gifts or they would repetitively pray the same thing and the hopes that whatever deity they were praying or whatever to, would hear and listen to them and hear them and, you know, and, and take that into the thing. And then what he's saying is in the modern church, what we have is people who go, I am just going to be so good. 

It's, I guess would you, would, you just say it's more like the kind of like the legalistic, I guess way of living. I wouldn't say legalistic. I say performative. Yeah, it's just, yeah. Well, based on good works. Well, no, the reason I say performative and not legalistic, a legalistic. 

You know, that person, at least for the most time, if they're legalistic, they're at least gonna follow their own rules as well. You know, whatever those rules are that they're being legalistic about or that's drinking, smoking, whatever. OK. Performative is gonna be that performative they're gonna go to church, they're gonna be good around the people from the church. They're going to do this stuff like that. Yeah. It's, they're trying to outdo the bad sort of thing. Yep. Especially when they're in a setting where others may see them. 

Which then I always, like, generally, I guess I shouldn't say I always, I, but I normally do. I always like the little, like, uh, poet me stuff that they got OK. And in the sections. But so for like this one being not the labors of my hand can fulfill thy law's demands. Could my zeal note respite? No. Could my tears forever flow for all for sin could not atone. And then the last line, thou must save and thou alone. Yep. Mhm. You know, and, and I, I underlined then one of the last lines here, uh to mend our own relationship with God regaining God's favor after having once loss, once lost, it is beyond the power of any one of us. And one must see and bow to this before one can share the biblical faith in God's grace, which I'm just gonna make a, a side remark. 

Um, outside of that, I find it funny that he ends the phrase with that and one must see and bow to this before one can share the biblical faith in God's grace because he's, he's pretty strongly Calvinist and he goes, well, if God wants to save you, he's gonna save you regardless and he's gonna give you his grace regardless. So, just on the whole sharing thing and that's why I just was like, I sometimes just like, I'm like, please be consistent with the Calvinism but that, that's just me. But beyond that, uh Calvin, but that would be, I mean, then you wouldn't even be doing what the Bible calls us to do anyways, which is as far as going out and like preaching the gospel to the loss, like seeking and saving the lost. Oh, yeah. So that, that's a whole other thing. And they always say, well, we do it because we're told to and we have 100% and I've heard someone go, well, I'm 100% effective when I preach he goes because those God will save are gonna be saved and those guys won't save, won't be saved. So I'm 100% effective. I'm like, how does that make sense? It, it doesn't. But yeah, because, because in my mind, I'm reading that last sentence and one must see and bow to this before one can share the biblical faith in God's grace. 

I'm like, that's a complete contradiction to the Calvinistic view because Calvinism c states that God will save whom he wants to save regardless of what you want to do, whether you want to be saved or not. And so I'm like those state those statements that doesn't work with Calvinism, but what just sharing biblical faith. No, no, no. The, that last sentence there one must see and bow to this before one can share. Yeah. He's not saying, share the biblical faith like you're going out and preaching. 

He's saying, share the biblical faith as in being a part of receiving grace. That's what he's saying. That that's so he's not saying share like you go out on the street corner and preach. He's saying, share like you, you receive your portion of it. That's what he's saying. 

Oh Yeah, I got you. So that's why I said for me, at least those two are contradict, that's a contradictory statement with Calvinism, but take the Calvinism out of it. And I agree. Huh? That's just me. I am not a Calvinist at all but that can get into that whole Calvinism thing right now. Interesting. Yeah, definitely not worth getting hung up on. Exactly. Exactly. There's other things that are more important and then the final point that he says, and why people are like this and that uh the sovereign freedom of God, which I was like, wait, what? 

At first I was like, just reading that, that little point title. I was like, I don't get what he's going on. Um But what he really is is getting at with that is that in ancient times, people worshipers of whatever deity uh believe that because they gave gifts to that deity that that deity was then bound by that gift to do something for them. And he's saying God isn't bound to do anything he can do whatever he wants. So that, that, that's, that's what he's getting at with that point of the sovereign, freedom of God. And I was like, ok, now I get it. But when I first read it, I was like, what, what, ok, was there anything in here that stuck out to you or? 

I just, I had a little laugh when I was reading, uh, a sentence in, within this paragraph for where it mentions that God is somehow obliged to love and help us just like, tell me why. Yeah. And, and yeah, because that's right in the middle of another, of a, of a full sentence. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's so for the whole thing is modern paganism has at the back of its mind, a similar feeling that God is somehow obliged to love and help us little though we deserve it. Yep. And, and that's going back to talking about how ancient paganism thought of these things and everything. But essentially that's what's coming down to is the fact that you know what God, it doesn't, just because we do something doesn't mean that God has to do anything he can do what he wants however he wants. And then the, the fun line to read would be, was in the start of the next paragraph where it says we can only claim from Him. 

Justice and justice for us means certain condemnation. Yep. Again, talking about how we are born in the state in which we are born in and the nature of which we are born in. No makes grace seem all that much more better in light of all that. Yeah, it kind of helps when you know about what you're supposed to get in the first place. Yep. Which leads right to the next segment segment of this chapter. 

Not earned or deserved. Talking about how grace is not earned or deserved in any which way he was talking about quite a few things in here. But was there anything in this? Um, yeah, it's really the final segment, I guess you could say of the chapter. Anything in here that stuck out at you. 

Oh, I mean, it, the picture of, um, at the bottom sentence of the first paragraph of this section of it saying four, it tells us how our judge has become our savior. Oh, how, that's it. I mean, that's comforting for sure, but it's, but also it's pretty, it's kind of crazy again, that's going back to that whole concept that he talked about early in the chapter how all this was given to us through Christ, you know, Christ paid the literally the cost for it all. And I'm, I'm trying to because I know it talk, there's talk of how Jesus has been given the authority um to judge us. But then he is also the one that again, yeah, has made the way for us to be saved. So he is the, he will be our judge. Ok. But I don't, I don't remember. How is that even? Is that in the next chapter? 

I thought that, I thought it talked about that somewhere in here. Oh, maybe it was just, uh, next chapter. It might be. It was really weird because as I read this, I could have thought there was a section where I was like, wait, that's what that was like in chapter 13. But now I'm having a hard time finding that. And 13 and 14 really go hand in hand with that. Yeah. Yeah. So is there anything that you highlighted in this segment? OK. So what I highlighted wasn't until 0.2 of this segment uh which is grace as the motive of the plan of salvation. And he wrote pardon is the heart of the Gospel, but it is not the whole doctrine of grace for the New Testament sets God's gifts of pardon in the context of a plan of salvation which began with and he, and he goes with which began with election before the world was, it's a very calvinistic way of thing. But yeah, um and will be completed only when the church is perfect in glory. In no words. Pardon is there. It's he says it's the heart of the gospel, salvation and that right? But he goes, but it's not the whole doctrine of grace. And this, this really, he goes on and talks about, you know, kind of that more calvinistic view of grace. Uh So that's the only reason I highlighted it there because I was like, yeah, because then he goes on and says, so we believers may rejoice to know that our conversion was no accident but an act of God which had in its place in, in an internal plan to bless us with the free gift of salvation from sin. 

Again, this is going back to the whole Calvinistic idea that you have no choice in the matter. If God wants you to be saved, you're gonna be saved trying to find where that is. Where that again, I'm using a kindle so I can't tell you exactly. But it's under that point. It's right before the little poem. 

The tell of his wondrous faithfulness. Oh, is it really? Oh, I was just, yeah, starting to look there. What the heck, I'm blind. Oh, never mind. I find it. Hm. But this is also me. 

Not really having much of an understanding of, yeah, not having an understanding of Calvinism. Yeah, but I mean, I guess isn't an accident. So what is, what is, what? Not an accent? Well, I'm just like, if anyone is ever saved. Is it an accident that someone had been saved? 

No, it's not an accident per se. Um, what he's getting at here is that Aaron, you're saved? That's because it was preordained. It was. You had no choice. Oh, that, that's, that's the part I have a little beef with, let's say, with Calvinism, man. 

I'm glad I don't read with that mindset because I don't see, II, I guess I just, I don't, I didn't get that. It's not, it's not saying like, oops, you tripped and you became saved. It's not saying that. No. No. Yeah, I know, I know that. But he's like saying essentially, hey, rejoice to know that your conversion, that you're one, the elect you're won the special. 

You're one of the, well, that's, yeah, I, I guess, yeah, that's reading from, I guess in the lens of a Calvinist, which I guess, yeah, he is one. But, yeah, yeah, I know. And the reading it's a blessing and a curse and not being able to tie these things together because then you start reading things and you're like, but reading it through that lens. OK? But, but that's just me, that's just me. 

Other than that I got nothing else on chapter 13. What do you got? I just wrote oof at the bat at the end of it. OK. What part of the end? OK. Uh It was the, just the last line or whatever of the, of the chapter. Do you claim to know the love and grace of God in your own life? 

Prove your claim then by going and praying likewise. I'm like, 00, why, why did that make you Oh, wow. Oh, it just depends on the season of life, I guess. Sometimes I'm not good at it. Gotcha. So, it's just kind of like, hm, prove it. I'm sorry. All right. But, yeah, next chapter. Sure. All right. So, now chapter 14 or as I kept telling Aaron chapter 15, uh, it's called God the Judge. 

Now this one goes right along with grace. Why are you going? I'm not, I don't want to go to 15. Why the wrath of God? I never, I don't wanna do that one now. Oh, that one's coming up uh next month. 

So, uh you know, at the rate we're going, maybe we'll get done with the book by the end of the year. I doubt it. So God, the judge, oh man, this one was easy to read. But also at the same time I was like, and it, it did, it part of me want was like, oh, I can skip it because I know so much, but at the same time it was good. Uh So was there anything that stuck out to you, sir in the intro segment before he gets to the characteristics of the judge? 

Well, also for kind of like we were talking about how you somehow from your experience there's been or from what you've seen, there's always so much talking of like the judgment and stuff of God where for me, it's like maybe I'm just not paying attention. I don't know but I, I was more on the line of where he says, and he's like, but speak to them of God as judge and they frown and shake their heads. Their minds recoil from such an idea. They find it repellent and unworthy. Right. And, yeah, I mean, people, that's why I think of like, you know, people enjoy the warm fuzzies, the stuff that makes you feel good. So grace. Yeah. But as soon as you get to the judge aspect of gosh, it is like, oh, I wanna, I wanna talk about that. Mm mm. Sound like a sad, sad, depressed dog. There we go. I think of Josh. Uh Josh's dog. Scout scout. Poor guy. Oh, looks like he's an existential dread. 

Yeah, exactly like that. We need to go pay a visit to that dog. I think we need to go liberate the dog. Maybe that too anyway. Go on. But that's, I mean, that was, that was like that was it for like the intro section of it? Ok. Yeah. And he talks a lot about what is a judge in here? And he gives, he references a lot of scriptural verses throughout it as well. Uh which is not a bad thing to go through. But if we were to go through that entire list right now, well, this will be broken into two parts. 

One part being just the judge part. Oh, for sure. It's, it's quite long, but that's ok. I wish Yeah, I wish I was taking some time to really go through all of them. Actually. I totally didn't go through all of these. Yeah, that's ok. There's, there's quite a few in there but he gets, uh, to the first section of his chapter which he calls characteristics of the judge and characteristics of the judge is a nice way of saying what is a judge? What does a judge mean? What does it mean to be a judge? 

At least in the terms of the Bible, we're not gonna talk about the current political system and what a judge is and judges and, and all that fun stuff. Ok. Now, some of it does go across some of it. Some of it, for example, the judge is a person with authority. Yep. Yep. The matches. And he, he does make a point here in, in there he goes in most modern states. 

Uh, the most modern. That's, yeah, I'll give it to him whatever. Maybe it was more true back then for him, the legislature and the judiciary, judiciary I can speak to. Those are, those are weird words. 

I hate them are divided so that judges do not, does not make the laws he administers but in the ancient world that was not so and so does not. And it is not so with God words, I can speak them. He is both the law giver and the judge. So what he's saying is, you know, back in the day, a judge would do both, he would both create the law and execute the forces. But if, if we're, if we're being honest here in modern day America judges, their, their judgments become essentially a new law, in essence, because further judgments are then rendered by that law by that judgment. Yeah. Yeah, but that splitting hairs not gonna go here and there right now. 

That's just how it is. Ok? Cool. Um He also says the judge is a person identified with what is good and right. Um which goes, he writes this, I'm just gonna read what he wrote here because I think it, it, it summarizes it way better than I can do that. 

The modern idea that a judge should be cold and dispassionate has no place in the Bible. In other words, the current judges that only care about facts they want the, it says the biblical judge is expected to love justice and fair play and to loathe and ill treatment of one person by another. Ok. The judge is a person of wisdom to discern truth. Yeah. I think we can all get behind that right. Um In this sentence right here when the Bible features God judging, it emphasizes his omniscience and wisdom as the searcher of hearts and the finder of facts. 

Now, that's something a modern judge cannot do at all. You correct? And that's where for me, I had the that next segment underline where nothing can escape him. We may fool men but we cannot fool God, he knows us and judges us as we really are. Yep. No, Jeff Winger will get us out of any of those things. No, Jeff Winger. I'm sorry, you may not know that. 

I'm a young little who out there knows that reference. It's not that old that the series only went ended in 2016. Oh yeah, I still definitely don't know it. So who out there knows what I mean by Jeff Winger? Can't even get you off of this one. Jeff Winger. It's another series. You'll have to watch another one. 

Yeah, they don't have time. I just, and then the last thing, uh, the judge is a person of power to execute sentence. Oh, wait, did you have something else there that I skipped over that you wanted to? Um, it was a section where it says God will know his judgment is according to truth and this is what I guess. Wow. It says factual truth as well as moral truth. I was just like, wait, what's the difference? And then he judges, judges the secrets of men, not just their public facade. Yep. Oh, and that's, hm, that's the part of me that inside. Just like just why are you going? Yes. Look, this is, I mean, there's just so much fake, like, well, the whole facade stuff where people just as you see one thing on the outside and, you know, it's completely different on the inside and for those that think they can get away with whatever it is that they're doing, it's like, hm, no, sorry, Bud. Yeah. Hopefully you get that fixed before it's too late. But if not, yeah, that comment of his, about factual truth as well as a moral truth. 

I don't get that. So factual truth, we know what factual truth is. Right? Black is black, white is white, one plus one equals two. There's two genders, you know, obviously there's those rare exceptions where someone's born with, you know, both or none or whatever, you know, in, in the general sense. Yes. OK. Outside of those random mutations, that's scientifically accurate. OK. How could you trust the science on this one man? What? OK. The Yeah, moral truth as well as moral truth. 

Moral truth is where you start getting into a little bit of gray water area. And I say gray water area because in modern America, there is no such thing as true. There's no such, it's relative truth can hate that. Yeah. Whereas God says no, morally, this is right, this is wrong, this is right, this is wrong and it's not moral truth as defined by humans. It's moral truth as defined by God. And God has said you shall do these things, you shall not do these things, you know, and, and what it ultimately comes down to all as well is, are you doing these things? And comes into the facade thing too. Are you doing these things to and doing them correctly? Because you want to do them, you want to please God or are you doing them publicly? So you get the good praise that I had a boy. 

You know, we're going back to the back, going back to that, that imagery that we have in the New Testament, that little story of, you know, you have the two people praying in the temple and one's like, you know, praying, you know, all of these grandiose prayers saying at least I'm not like the tax collector over here or whatever this sinner over here, you know, saying all these things. But then that guy who is quote unquote, the sinner in the corner is, you know, beating his chest, essentially saying God have mercy on me. A sinner. Yeah. Hm. You know what? And ultimately God's gonna be the judge of all that. So guess what? He me? No judge, he, he get to do what he ever so pleases. Yeah. Mhm So, but that was it for that for me? OK. The next section is retribution. What does retribution mean by the way? 

You know what don't even really know of the actual definition. You don't know what retribution means, not like the actual, not the actual like thing. It would, it would, it would it give you a pause or concern that you read it? What the actual definition is when you read this chapter because it's in the first paragraph. Wait, it is retribution, the rendering to persons what they have deserved. 

Wait, wait, hold up where it's like near the end of the first paragraph. What the sentence? Oh, I skipped the paragraph. Oh, yeah. Is that really? Yeah. Ok. Yeah, I did read that. Wow. I didn't underline that. Oddly enough. I was like, I wonder if Aaron knows what it means? 

A and then if he remembers that he read what it means. B the answer to both is no, no, the obliviousness is growing. I only know it when I read it and then I forget about it. Ok. In one ear and out the other palm. 

Wait until you're older and won't even go in one ear. You're like, ha ha. I wore ear plugs last night. So, ok, I was protecting my hearing at least trying to. Ok. Gosh, I'm learning that with this old age, this old age. 

You're not even 30 yet. We're just, that's the thing with the newer generations. We're, we're aging quicker. Oh, you're not contribution. 

I'm gonna get my retribution here. Do it. Um Was there anything in retribution that stuck out to you? Yeah. There was a couple little things that I had underline this uh there will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil, but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good for God does not show favoritism. Cool. The thing that. Oh, is that the, so for we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ that each 1 may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether they're good or bad. And then, I mean, yeah, there's oh yeah, I forget how long this section is. 

If, if it's not done here, it's done. Then hereafter we're talking about like, you know, we'll see people that we are well, people that are sinful, well and doing things that are terrible. But they have the great life. They have a nice relaxing, easy life. They have things that they want where you'll see people that are, you know, following Christ doing good, being good and suffering kind of thing. It's like they may not pay well on earth, but they'll pay later on for it because if they don't get right with God before that ending day and then, oh, yeah. But in the same vein, those who aren't saved may suffer a lot on earth. 

They can suffer a lot. Correct after. Yes. Yep. II. I just want to make, make sure that, that, that's the thing I was, uh, I mean, it seem like it'd be a given, like people that are doing dumb stuff here and doing wrong now. 

Yeah, you're gonna get caught for it but not everybody does. Yeah. Some people get away with a lot. 

I remember in college there's this whole concept going around and still around to this day now where this was kind of the start of the, there is no hell movement, you know, and they go, well, hell is just here on earth for these people. So they're living in hell now. So therefore they can't live in hell afterwards because God wouldn't allow them to go to double hell to the double. Oh, that's so funny. I'm like, ok, like, no theologically. 

No, that's not the case. You know how? It's not saying that their time on earth is hell because they're like, no, that's interesting. Yeah, I wonder how right. I'll hear, like the comment that this is just like a, like a purgatory or something like that. I'm just like, all right, good old Catholic doctrine, whatever purgatory is that, is that from where that comes from? 

That's part of it. Yeah. Where, you know Erin, if you're a Catholic, you know, you were saved but you did some bad things and you didn't do enough Hail Marys and all that. So you would go to purgatory until you paid your penance in purgatory or your family paid enough money to the church to get you out of purgatory. Yeah. And that's where they get their monies, the indulgences. 

Yeah, we won't get into that. I don't know. Let me ask this real quick since we're, since we're on the topic anyway. Did they teach you that in, um, in history class at all? About like, the Catholic church? And indulgences and all that. 

I, I'm trying to think of where, where I've heard that if you pay enough money someone can get, can move on. I don't know if that was in there history class or if that was just at church when Catholic stuff came up. Or Catholicism. Ok. I was just wondering because I know we covered that in one of my history classes in high school. So I was just curious. Um. Mhm. I paid a lot of attention in history class. No, he didn't. No, I didn't. Ok. II, I was just curious because, no, no, no, maybe we'll have to educate you sometime. II, I would wonder, man, maybe I should ask my nephew and be like, hey, what do you learn in history class or have you even heard anything about this? 

Especially, we should educate you at some point. I, I like me a good, you can use one. I actually thought about going back to school a little bit again. Yeah. It's really weird. But I was like, ah, do I take off of work? We know someone who can help you? 

We know someone who can get you into, into classes locally. It would probably be a good thing to get, get back to before it's too late before I get stuck or figure out what you wanna do. Because maybe it's a career that just requires certifications. Right. Right. Because a lot of jobs nowadays it's degree or 10 years of experience. Well, I'm almost at the 10 year part then certifications if there's certifications. But any who, um, now we got a, that was a wide tangent. Sorry. Mhm. Anyways, Catholicism. Uh, but anything else, I guess, because I feel like I'm also jumping over through stuff. I don't know if you have much, do you, if you have a lot with? Because then the next thing I have is, um, the seg section where it says, but the character of God is the guarantee that all wrongs will be righted someday when the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 

This says Romans two ver chapter two verse five, arise retribution. Oh, I'm sorry. I should, I should have read that better. But rights retribute retribution will be exact and no problems of cosmic unfairness will remain to haunt us. Haunt hasn't, has said that we would haunt us. 

God is the judge. So justice will be done. That's the point I had highlighted next that the roof. Uh and it's all wrongs will be righted someday and that's wrongs according to God, not according to us, right? Our two will probably have a lot more wrongs that we've done than we would. 

Yeah, because our list will be a lot less exhaustive than his list. So that wasn't that bad, right? It was wrong doing it. And there might be things that, you know, when we get to heaven, we might think unfair human wise. But God says, nope, it's fair. You know, there, there's that age old, I shouldn't say age old, but it's, it's old enough nowadays, you know, like the kind of, uh, debate it when you want to have a class debate. Hm. What if Hitler moments before he died repented? Oh, my gosh. Uh-huh. Uh, and you're standing up there in heaven worshiping God. And next to you is good old Hitler. Right. Hm. How's that gonna make one feel more from an earthly perspective? 

We'd go, that's unfair. Oh, absolutely. But from God's perspective, he goes, well, it's un, it's unfair that any of you get here, get in here. Right. I mean, I guess being from Wisconsin it's wild. 

The thing about, hey, we could be up there with potentially good old man. Now, the, the, the good thing, the good thing about that. Ok. You know, regardless, think of that, regardless. Yeah. Whoever it is, sin, nature will be gone at that point, at least. Right. So, yes, there's, there's none of that craziness going on, but from a human perspective we would look at it and go. That's not fair. That's not right. And God's saying it is right, because Christ paid it, my son paid it for you all. 

Doesn't matter who you are. It was paid which, oh, there's somewhere in here. Mhm. Where it, uh, it talks, huh? About? Oh, ok. It's, it is near the end. 

Where about what you're building your foundation or what you build on the foundation for, like, what you do with your life. Um, so, I don't know. I don't, I don't wanna, I guess jump too far with that and, uh, especially if you have anything in the next section. Oh, Jesus, the father's agent. Yeah. Um, I had a question for you. Oh, great. What does the word pre figuration mean? I was what? Wait, pre figuration. Oh, wait, where is that one? The second paragraph? The clearest pre figuration of Jesus as judges in Matthew. 

Yeah, the clearest configuration. I'm, I'm trying, I'm trying to, I am I thinking of the word foreshadowing or it's like saying or giving you an idea of what he is before it actually happens. I don't know. Is that kind of what you're, that's what I'm going with. I know it's kind of close, it's kind of close because they only could give it. 

Well, the one thing I can get is the pre barb fair enough. So, uh prefigure means be an early indication or version of something. OK. So that's what I said. You're kind of close. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to get in that direction. Yeah. OK. Um And archaically can also be used as imagined beforehand. Uh Latin means represent beforehand, it comes from the two words pray, which means before and figuera, which means to form fashion figura. Uh So the clearest prefigure, in other words, the clearest image of Jesus as a judge before he's actually a judge is in Matthew. Mm. Ok. I just want to know what uh, if, if you knew that was or not. 

Yeah, that's about as close as my brain would get with it. Hey, you know what you did? You did fairly well, sir. Uh, so I really had nothing else um, on that, on that section, to be honest, the next thing I have is under index of the heart. Ok. So blow me away with your knowledge and things that you have highlighted and oh yeah, I'll see what sort of been said, which is the men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 

Hm For by your words, you will be acquitted and by your words, you will be condemned. Yeah, I think I've probably said a lot of careless words in my time and oh, this is maybe the words show what you are inside, I guess maybe that's what I was thinking of more. So when previous chapter, it's like, you know, you can be involved in all these things, but overall you're a good person, it's like, but from what, what you feel yourself with inside is in your heart and that's gonna come out one way or another. Um And then just the next little bit, that's basically just saying the same thing for out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. Hm. That's convicting anything else in this section. Is this still the same section? 

Oh, it is still the same section where it talks about if any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood hair or straw, his work shall be shown for what it is because the day will bring it to light, it will be revealed with fire and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer a loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. And that's just a direct quote of first Corinthians 3, 12 through 15. So it's nothing that hero. 

He's just the Bible right there. OK. And see where I I OK. Anything particular about that, I guess for you other than just giving you the shivers. 

No, I don't remember the last time I've ever read or seen this verse before or these verses. Oh, first Corinthians. Yeah, because man, that really, uh it's just like I just quit quite a wake up call. I remember one of the first times I heard this verse part of this. Oh man, I was in youth group at the time. Oh, so, ok, quick story. 

Ya, uh our, our youth group was very entertaining. Um So one year for whatever reason, we did a prom alternative for a youth group, a prom alternative, you know. So instead of the students going to prom, we all went into a, no, we went to a van and we went down to like Chicago to like a fancy dinner. And then like, this was, this is how old this was. So Disney got into the realm of doing arcades for a little bit. 

I don't know, they were like very un unprofitable for them. Like when I'm saying arcades, like you built your own roller coaster but like you designed your own roller coaster on a screen and then you got into like a little roll, like little capsule that moved and everything and you got to ride your own little roller coaster. Kind of cool though. It was kind of cool. Like it, it was kind of cool but they lost money because of just didn't do well. Well. No, it did well. But lines were long and everything, you know, and they had other things. 

Like, it's like eight of you controlling a Mac to fight these aliens, but there's eight of you controlling one Mac at the same time, you know, it's like one drives and seven people shoot and all that and it's like all 3 60 around you everything. Ok. So we did stuff, we did stuff like that all the time, right? Uh One of the years instead of doing like a winter camp, we went to this conference down in Chicago area. It's like, yeah, it was interesting. And the one of the first nights, the first, not one of the first night, the first night we were there, they preached on this and then they also did the uh Bema seat like a dramatization of the Bema seat, the Bema seat, the Great White Throne Judgment. 

Oh, I've never heard the Yeah. Yeah, it's, that's what it's called. Oh um OK. So, you know, even back in youth group, like they use this and like that Great White and, but they like, did this big old dramatization of the Great White Throne judgment and all that. So, you know, as a stage play and everything. And so, yeah, even in youth group way back when like, wow, la, la, la, la la, wow, that would be wild. Mhm. So, ok. Was there anything else from there or no? Because the next one is no need to flee? Ok. Because I do have something highlighted in there. Uh Which is the next paragraph actually. Oh, so which is this final judgment will also be according to our knowledge? And I read that at first and I was like, huh, that's interesting. What does he mean by that? And then after I asked that question, I went, what does he mean by that? And I go, oh, wait, I know what he means by that. Uh oh, and then I read the next sentence, all people know something of God's will through general revelation. Do you know what general revelation is, sir? No, really. I don't think so. Ok. So general revelation and it, and you find this in the Bible as well is that I'm gonna simplify it for you? Ok. It's a concept that someone who has never been preached to never Christ has never been shared with them at all. 

They can still know about Christ through things like nature. It's that concept. That's general revelation. Oh, ok. Now, now you know what it, what it is. So, you know, people go well, how do the unreached tribes of wherever know, how could any of them be saved? They can know through general revelation is what is what they're saying? Yeah. Yeah. So, and then continues on, even if they have not been instructed in the law of the gospel and are all guilty before God for falling short of the laws of the best they know. But ill Desert is graded according to what that best was. And go see Romans 2 12 and Luke 12 47 48. 

The principle of operating here is that where a man has not been given much, much will not be expected of him. I, I don't know if I agree with that 100% because what he's saying is like a, a sliding scale at that point. I, I, you know, there's still the basic understanding of, you know, salvation. You had to be saved through Christ. You can't just be like, well, I know this a little bit. So this, I did this. 

Oh, yeah, I'm saying that. So that's, that's, that, that's the only part that I was like. Yeah. But everything else, there was pretty good. And then do you have anything else to end out the chapter? He knows our secrets and on Judgment Day, the whole of our past life will be played back as it were before him and brought under review. Huh? That's no boy. No, not looking forward to that rewind. Huh? No, absolutely not. Gosh, it's guess that's just all the more incentive to be like as to uh, well, as I highlighted near will underline that highlight near the bottom is seek him now. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Uh Any final thoughts on chapters 13 and 14 or as I kept referring to them? 14 15. Yeah, I'm already not looking forward to 15 now. The wrath. Oh, we're gonna read about the wrath, right? 

That's, that's next, that's 15. But then chapter 16 is called and severity. Yep. Sure goodness and severity. Which just then 17, the jealous God who? Yep. But then we, after that we go into part three. Yep. If God before us. Cool. So we're, we're, we're getting there slowly. 

It's getting, it's getting better again. Well, it's, it's getting more uplifting. Aaron's never gonna pick another book like this again. No, just kidding. The next book is gonna be Dude. Bears, dude. Is it Bernstein or Bernstein Bear, I guess. 

I've always said a Bernstein because they're bears. But it could be the Bernstein Bears. It probably is the Bernstein Bears, you know, because there's that controversy. Yeah. Ok. Anyways, anything else on these two chapters or? 

No, they do go well together as far. I, I'm glad we ended, it, ended that with, well, I guess as, but now, yeah, we're going into the wrath of God, which is gonna be a great way to start the next one. should we turn all the lighting to red to the heck? Yeah. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I'm not. But I guess I, I like, I like ending with the, well, Elliot is talking about the judge aspect of things because that is something I guess I don't think I hear much of and it's a good reminder, especially that passage in Corinthians first Corinthians that and hearing about the, well, and reading about the, how our life will be played back before us before Christ. And it's just like, oh, this is what I've done with my time so far. 

Oh, no, hopefully I will do as I underlined in there. See him more, more, well now and more, more, uh, I guess. What, what's, what's the, uh, hastily, I don't know. Is that, would that be a word to use? I don't know. I wanna go with that one for now. 

Has means like quick, quick. Yeah, with urgency and, oh, yeah, I don't know. II, I think as a first song for your band, AJ and Friends, you should write a song based on that chapter about the Judge. God is Judge. Yeah, that can be a heavy song. Heck, yeah, that's the first AJ and friend song. Hm. Do make something sick. 

But, uh, I don't know. I, I, yeah, I enjoyed them. I, I enjoyed these chapters. It's, um, it's good to read about the grace of God along with the judge God, his judge try to convince me more. Your facial expressions are not the same. You're like, oh, I'm about to read these chapters. 

I try to convince me more because right now you're not convincing me too well. Oh, it was good. It's I'm just thinking of myself. That's all it is. Ok. Hm. Any other final commentary, sir or no? No? All right. Well, thank you for joining us this week. Then uh next week we're gonna be talking about, oh the Wrath. Oh, wait, next week, I'm sorry. That's next month is about wrath you idiot. Next week we'll be talking about one of two songs that we're gonna be talking about this month. We'll see which one? Oh, music Fun times. And Aaron is looking a little confused now for sounds like, wait, what do you mean two songs now? I remember you join us next week and thanks for joining us again this week. Bye.